March 10, 2009 by Peat
Posted in
Hot on the heels of the Aeroponic AeroGarden blog, I'm now going to build a much bigger aeroponic system.
Rubbermaid type container (35 litre / 9 gallon capacity), hydroton grow rocks, rockwool, six aeroponic sprayers, 3" net containers, airstone, Sicce Nova flow adjustable water pump, 125w (6400K) Eco-CFL grow lamp, digital timer...
Container dimensions- Length x Width x Depth (480mm x 390mm x 310mm) or (18.89" x 15.35" x 12.20")
A few tasters.
All built!
The aero sprayer assembly follows my original design I did for the AG. I have drilled and grommeted three holes in the top left of the box (for the water pump power lead and air lines from the air pump), two pieces of sponge were placed at either end of the 'T' bar, they absorb vibration and steady the bar.
I anyone wants more build/technical details then just ask. 
So what's the plan for all this? I'm going to start growing some mixed lettuce seeds (using rockwool) in my Aeroponic AeroGarden Conversion - give this a try out. Once the plants have got some good growth, I'll take the rockwool out and plant them into this unit; the rockwool will be surrounded by the hydroton clay pebbles. I'll then turn the beast on and see what I can get out of it - see below...
Weekly Grow Pictures (Click To Enlarge)
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Sat, 03/27/2010 - 13:11
#2
Thank you all, your comments
Thank you all, your comments are appreciated. 
hengis - the light timings were kept at 18 on and 6 off, the water pump I used was run 24/7. Next time I'll run it for 15 minutes on and 30 minutes off, this will give the air roots more of a chance rather than being 'drenched' continuously. The toms grow ended prematurely, the heatwave we had last year killed the whole plant off unfortunately - I was only about 3 weeks away from harvest. In case you missed the grow, it's here with some conversation we had on it.
Sat, 03/27/2010 - 08:23
#3
Fantastic grow. What is the
Fantastic grow. What is the on and off time for the lights and the pump? I tried a hydroponic grow last year using a caravan water pump but the pump failed probably because I was switching it on for 20sec and off for 150sec. I chose these times because that was similaar to NASA experiments.
I will be watching your toms grow with interest. How many plants will you put in each 35l container?
Fri, 04/24/2009 - 10:36
#4
After deciding to do the
After deciding to do the Totem F1 tomatoes, I've completely changed my mind and now gone for the Gardeners Delight. 
What really swung it was the determinate/indeterminate thing... These are indeterminate so it's probably better as you both say.
The lettuce has all been harvested, we made a massive salad which will last a few days - one of the butterheads was given away, far too much to eat! The tomatoes are now over here, I'm hoping for the same results with my little system.
Fri, 04/24/2009 - 13:38
#5
Glad to hear it! I for one,
Glad to hear it! I for one, will be watching.
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 10:48
#6
Week 2
The lettuce is
Week 2
The lettuce is absolutely amazing, it's now covered the whole of my grow container. I've never seen anything quite like this, the AeroGarden is now looking like a very poor runner up...
OK, the technical bit once more - the EC has been dropped to 1.7 because the Tom Thumb lettuce at the back is showing a little sign of burn on the leaf edges, pH kept at 6.0
I think I had better start to use some of this now, where to start in the jungle though. 
Healthy white roots.
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 14:08
#7
Absolutely fantastic plants!
Absolutely fantastic plants! Love it!! You do good work. lol. (but I mean it)
Have you tried something like this with full size tomatoes? If not, will you? (I'm really interested because I have one growing in a bucket and I like to follow your experiments)
Now, where to start??? How about with the biggest leaves and make a huge salad for the family tonight!
Enjoy!
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 15:37
#8
Thanks Judith.
I used to do
Thanks Judith.
I used to do something called ebb & flow / flood & drain - tomatoes were my main grow with this.
It would be good to do them again in this system, I'm itching to try everything with this now and want to take the lettuce out! I've grown Totem F1 but have been looking at ones called Gardeners Delight. I like the cherry toms and these crop in only 65 days, I feel I'm leaning in this direction.
May try the grow slightly different this time, bypass the germination in the AG and seed direct into rockwool, the baskets and hydroton - leave a gap at the top of the rockwool though for the seedling to get out! Once it's out, fill around with the hydroton for support.
I purposely got the 3" net baskets for this DIY project, they are big enough to support tomatoes and gave me scope for the larger plants. Smaller baskets aren't so good at supporting larger plants, only for the small lettuce type grows. The trade off of course is that I can only get 6 in my container.
As for the feeding for your toms, I've pretty much stuck to the stock GH formula, going through all the phases before settling on bloom - same as my AG cherry tom grow.
Madly harvesting lettuce now to use it all up.
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 15:58
#9
May try the grow slightly
May try the grow slightly different this time, bypass the germination in the AG and seed direct into rockwool, the baskets and hydroton - leave a gap at the top of the rockwool though for the seedling to get out! Once it's out, fill around with the hydroton for support.
You mentioned this somewhere else so that's what I did in my bucket. I planted 2 tomato seeds in a small rockwool cube, wet it down, placed it in hydroton in a 12" basket. I kept it moist, and soon I had 2 seedlings. I snipped the smallest, (I HATE doing that) and the other is growing very well. I kept it moist for a while, then added your suggested nutes for the cukes. I also added hydroton to build up around it a little and hide the rockwool.
I would love to know if you decide to do it again. (you can see it in my latest pictures post on my glog - in the distance) After the discussion with the GH rep, I've been thinking of slowly upping the nutes, but at the moment, still on your formula and it's doing very well.
I hope you do it. (totally selfish reasons of course) lol
Enjoy!
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 16:14
#10
After much deliberation, I
After much deliberation, I think I'll go with the Totem F1 toms.
I already have these, they don't grow that big and they are more suited to my container. The other ones will grow tall, light penetration from my grow lamp will not reach the lower leaves...
Once the lettuce is gone, I'll do 'em.
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 17:11
#11
Yea!!!!!!
Yea!!!!!!
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 21:23
#12
Awesome lettuce grow, Peat!
Awesome lettuce grow, Peat! They really are showing the difference - great proving plant for the tech! Looks tasty too. 
So these Totem T1 say they're determinate, and you've grown them before. When they say determinates set all their fruit at once, ripen, then they're done - how literally true is that? I thought I was growing a determinate last summer, but it was semi-determinate, which means... whatever. 
It built slowly up to a tomato avalanche, and then died because summer was over, was what it meant in practice.
Thu, 04/23/2009 - 10:25
#13
Thanks gisette, the Totem
Thanks gisette, the Totem F1's (despite being determinate), kept on fruiting with me? I was hesitant when I first grew them because of the 1-2 weeks thing, but, they lasted some time. OK, they weren't cropping heavily at the end but were still producing tomatoes.
Once they were done, the leaves started to die off and they went very 'leggy'. I did not keep a log of these grows so have no idea how long they went on for - once I get them into the DIY unit then we will have a decent picture log with this site.
I like the way your site can keep a pictorial record of the grows, it really shows the difference between all the weeks - the way this lettuce has grown over two weeks shows up really well. Opening the lighbox and forwarding on the pictures is so neat. I'd like to say 'thanks' again for putting it all together and keeping it running. 
Thu, 04/23/2009 - 10:37
#14
Thanks, Peat. Very
Thanks, Peat. Very constructive of you. I should put some more effort into the site again soon... Maybe. 
Still haven't wholly given up on making lightboxes easier to make...
Interesting re the Totem determinates. I keep shying away from determinates because I don't want a plant that takes months to grow, dumps a harvest all at once, and then stops. I want a steady tomato supply over months. But, not sure whether I'm just being overly literal.
Thu, 04/23/2009 - 11:02
#15
I have to watch Peat's
I have to watch Peat's experiments! Gives me great ideas. But I too am not crazy about determinates for the same reasons as Gisette, but will watch with interest.
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 11:59
#16
I think AG does not have
I think AG does not have enough spacing and enough room in the grow baskets for the plants to spread out... True Aeroponics is going to beat it but requires space...
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 10:04
#17
Week 1
One heck of a
Week 1
One heck of a difference in one week, the system is performing perfectly - a very happy Peat. 
The Tom Thumb butterhead lettuce is at the back left and front right. Back middle is the standard AG lettuce, all the rest are my mixed mesclun salad leaves.
The GH nutes will be kept at EC 1.8 and pH 6.0 for the entire grow.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 10:28
#18
Hey Peat!
Those are
Hey Peat!
Those are incredible!
Wow! I seriously have to rethink growing lettuce in soil. 
Its loves water & does too well in a hydro system to ignore!
You think I can take the sprouts I have out of the soil and put them in water or is it too late?
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 10:43
#19
Thanks Jessi.
It's not too
Thanks Jessi.
It's not too late to get them into a grow sponge, just make sure you really wash the soil off - every bit.
The beauty with this system is that it's aeroponic, it grows plants quicker than hydroponic...
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 10:53
#20
Gorgeous, Peat! Judging by
Gorgeous, Peat! Judging by your red plants, that's a great light you have on the system, too.
So these plants are 3 weeks old from seed, correct?
You might get better growth from the AG lettuces by giving them some more distance (or waterproof barrier) from the hydroton rocks. The hydroton seems to suck the life out of delicate leaves.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 11:07
#21
Thanks Gisette.
The plants
Thanks Gisette.
The plants are now 3 weeks old, the AG one was a last minute inclusion - one of the pods did not come to anything in the aero AG, they are lagging a little behind now.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 14:40
#22
I just LOVE this whole
I just LOVE this whole idea!!! Have you done any studies on the extra cost to run pumps and lights?
(I haven't had any trouble with the hydroton rocks, have you? -- for future reference)
Enjoy!
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 15:20
#23
Thanks Judith.
The lights
Thanks Judith.
The lights are 125watt and the water pump is 10watt, it's not going to be too much extra - I could probably buy all the produce cheaper than it costs to grow? It's a hobby, so I'm willing to ignore that part, and, it tastes better.
As for the hydroton, I've never actually experienced the drying up that others have.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 15:03
#24
Bruce, Dr. Ann, and I have
Bruce, Dr. Ann, and I have all experienced trouble with low-lying tender leaves and hydroton grow rocks. You wouldn't have any problem, Judith, because you're growing plants where only the stems are down by the rocks. Looseleaf lettuce is shaped differently.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 15:59
#25
Peat,
Looks great! How many
Peat,
Looks great! How many lbs of hydroton rocks did you use for this kit? I made my 2nd foray into the hydro store for the pH kit and looking at liquid nutrients and component for a DIY kit.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 16:14
#26
Thanks Mary.
A rough guess
Thanks Mary.
A rough guess would be around 3lbs, it's not that much hydroton - it depends on your net pot size of course. The good thing is you can reuse the hydroton after you have finished with it, give it a good soak in hydrogen peroxide (H202) and you'll be good to go again.
Have you decided on the type of nutrients you want yet? I'm biased to GH of course.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 17:20
#27
Well, I have a lot of seeds
Well, I have a lot of seeds kits coming (or to be picked up from a friend in the US) from the Amazon sale a while back for about $8-10 for a 6 pod kit and master gardener kit. I think I might save most of those for my Mom and branch out in the fall and do some of my own stuff a DWC or DIY hydroponic / aeroponics system. I am especially interested in baby Spinach and strawberries :D
As for nutrients, I am still researching right now since the GH 3 parters are a bit expanive in the hydro closest to me - C$20 per 946 ml bottle x 3 = $60. The FloraGrow and Flora Bloom are about C$33 each so I might need to get some down in the US on one of my trips since there are more competition there and I would prefer to get a small starter kit to try it out and I heard those can be purchased in the US for $20 or so.
One thing the hydro store guy said is that if I am planning to grow vegetables, I might want to consider getting an organic one or would have to flush or rinse my vegetables well. But on closer look during yesterday's 2nd foray into the hydro store, the organic liquid nutrients asks for 1-3 tbsp rather than 1-3 tsp so it is much more expansive...
By the way, my first try with rockwool, I forgot to add the lemon juice in the water used to soak the rockwool but those coreopsis and Chinese wax gourd are slow starters. Also I had 1 of the pods in the AG6 with grown herbs so have been flushing it with water once a day after the first 4-5 days. I soaked another 1.25" inch cube today to try and do 2 more pods for vitamin water bottles for my own lettuce seeds and seed starting for my mom's yellow cherry tomatoes or a new cherry tomato seeds to make up for killing half a dozen of her cherry tomato seedlings yesterday.
Wed, 04/15/2009 - 10:06
#28
Mary - now there's another
Mary - now there's another debate; to flush or not to flush before harvest...
OK, the purists would say to flush, remove all the chemicals before eating - improves taste.
Me, I've never bothered. Has the taste been affected - no, has anyone you know (or even yourself), complained about the taste from non flushed produce; on any forum - probably not.
It's a nice idea, but will only really work with determinate crops. Indeterminate, lettuce, herbs etc. not practical and not worth bothering about.
That's my take on things.
Rockwool is a tricky customer, it's really unstable unless it's soaked first. It can alter the pH of a solution and have a different pH in the cube itself! Don't let that put you off though, it's a great medium for growing and is a mainstay of hydro growers.
I'm shocked with the quantities required for the organic nutes, that's quite a difference. I bought three 1 litre GH bottles about this time last year for my AG's, I'm just about at the half way mark on each bottle now - that's 1 year and only half empty. Plus, I rinse/refill every two weeks, so, you can see how far they go.
Wed, 04/15/2009 - 18:35
#29
I don't know enough about
I don't know enough about hydroponics and aeroponics to have an opinion one way or another but lettuce and herb would be too much of a hassle to flush since you tend to do partial harvest frequently. I did one water change so far at my Mom SS6 at 2.5 month mark and can imagine what hassle it would be to do it frequently with flushing on top of it. I don't see myself doing that more than once a month unless I am growing tomatoes or something. I dumped the AG water last time but might save the water on future dump and refill to use it for my Mom's seedlings or soil plants / outdoor garden.
I soaked the last one but did not do the lemon juice but would have been difficult at that time since i did not own a liquid pH kit till this Monday. I was getting a little too impatient with rockwool effectiveness since it is hard to judge by slow germinating coreopsis and wax gourd. To better understand the medium I started 2 more pods yesterday in rockwool, soaked in lemon juice treated water first for a couple of hours and then slightly rinsed, and planted one with Grand rapid Lettuce and the other with Red Cherry tomatoes of a 3rd type but not sure if it is determinate or indeterminate. This is only to give them a better start on life and to try and play catchup with other tomato seedlings that started about a month ago.
http://usc-canada.org/what-you-can-do/seed-saviour/greta-tomatoes/
I have the lettuce just in plain tap water ph 6.5-6.7, I moved th wax gourd out to plain water but it had been in a regular AG with full strengtj herb tabs for a week. I moved the coreopsis into the mature herb garden but pour settled tap water on it every so often ~once a day to dilute the full strength nutes. The tomatoes are being babied with the mixed lettuce crop on starter nutrient about a week later.
If the price differential was even 25% more, I would probably have purchased the organic ones to try but at 3x since price per bottle are similar between them and GH, it is not worth it. I might chicken out and do only the GH 2 part grow and bloom nutrients rather than going to the 3 part. one consideration is that if I want to convert my Mom to liquid nutrient later, I need to keep it simple.
Wed, 04/15/2009 - 21:28
#30
Mary - that's part of why I'm
Mary - that's part of why I'm tempted to try the Floramato / Maxigro / Maxibloom line. Measure with a tablespoon or something, and only use one dry ingredient at a time. Not entirely sure how well it would go with my pump-based AG systems - depends on how well it dissolves - but it should dissolve at least as well as the AG tabs. It would sure be a lot easier than the liquid nutes.
Thu, 04/16/2009 - 09:06
#31
There is also the Flora Nova
There is also the Flora Nova Grow & Bloom series; if that's the two part one you mean?
I wanted to try this in my AG originally, but could not buy it over here- settled for the usual 3 part in the end. I've heard that it's very thick though, so it will need mixing well.
Thu, 04/16/2009 - 09:42
#32
Peat,
Yes, that is the one I
Peat,
Yes, that is the one I was thinking of, GH Flora Nova Grow and Blooms.
They stock it at that local hydro but it is C$33 for each of the same sized bottle as each of the 3 parter which is C$20. So total outlay is approximately the same but since you end up with only 2 bottle and assuming that you use the same in term of dilution, it is 65% more in price.
If I want to convert my mom to liquid nutrients eventually, I need to either pre-mix it for her in a large jug or keep it simple. My mom thinks the AG kits at $20 is too expansive and I don't think she would buy them herselves and she would not want us to keep buying them for her so I did a decent sized buy to stock her up for this Mother's Day with a couple of seed kits on sale and deluxe master gardener kits plus a mini greenhouse but need to find affordable alternatives for pod and nutrients afterwards.
Thu, 04/16/2009 - 16:28
#33
See my Glog for the latest
See my Glog for the latest from the GH rep.
Judith
Then a second email.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 19:36
#34
Mary - you might find
Mary - you might find someplace cheaper, but I've been buying nutes from http://www.hydroponics.net . Shipping is costly ($9 for two pint bottles, $7.45 for my new pH control kit), but this stuff is heavy. I keep thinking I'd like to try Floramato, MaxiBloom, or MaxiGro instead sometime, but haven't yet (1-part GH dry nutrients) .
FWIW, myself and several others have tried and failed to grow spinach in an Aerogarden. Peat gave a link once to someplace that says it can be grown hydroponically, but... If I were going to try it again, I'd start with the pH around 7.0 - much higher than the ~6.0 pH for most crops. I would watch your efforts with great interest. But - I find baby leaf spinach easy to grow in potting mix, and it simply died hydroponic.
Wed, 04/15/2009 - 18:17
#35
Gisette,
The one around me
Gisette,
The one around me sales the quart sized bottle of GH and even allowing for exchange rate differential, it is a lot more then the prices but once you add the shipping probably about in line. I have 2-3 other hydro stores in town but this is the closest at 5-10 minute drive away. Their Hydroton rocks seems decently priced with 10 lbs at C$13 and 50 lb at C$30 but I do not see myself using 50lbs unless one can use it to cover soil plants or garden to preserve water.
I would never grow Spinach in an AG. I was thinking about a DIY kit in a rubbermaid container with pump / airstone but when the tomato and coreopsis seeds go out, I might soak my last rockwool cube and try 1-2 spinach with the lettuce garden in AG to get my feet wet.
The problem with baby spinach in potting mix is that you have to wash it very well and if that I would probably just buy the 1 lb boxes (prewashed) and eat it for a week. I am not a big fan of large leaf spinach but love baby spinach for spinach salads.
Tue, 04/14/2009 - 09:59
#36
Week 0 - (Starting
Week 0 - (Starting Week)
After previously growing some lettuce from seed in the Aeroponic AeroGarden Conversion, I planted them into this system on 7th April 2009.
They are under a 125watt CFL 6400K (vegetative grow spectrum) grow lamp and hood.
The feed is the full GH Growth Stage, EC is adjusted to 1.8 and the pH is at 6.0
Tue, 03/17/2009 - 10:49
#37
At last I have it all
At last I have it all running, quite a bit of trouble with leaks caused some delay... I can now plant the AG up with lettuce, grow these to seedling and get them in here. I couldn't plant the AG up until this was waterproof - you can see the brown sealing strip around the top.
A little pic of the system running, I've adjusted the spray bar so it's just wetting the bottom of the net baskets when they go in. I don't want to soak them and water log the rockwool (which holds my seedlings), need some air through the rockwool for growth.
Tue, 03/17/2009 - 16:04
#38
I love these action shots!
I love these action shots! 
Congratulations, Peat - well done!
Tue, 03/17/2009 - 16:15
#39
Thanks.
I'm really happy
Thanks.
I'm really happy with this project, it all turned out better than I expected. I can't wait to get the thing up and running, first foray into aeroponics proper - apart from the AG dabble.
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 17:27
#40
Wow Peat! This is incredible!
Wow Peat! This is incredible! You inspire me! I wanna make my own Aerogarden type thingy too!
Question, Are the grow rocks crucial? Can you just use any rocks or pebbles you want or maybe that stuff they put in fish tanks? 
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 17:46
#41
Thanks jessi, you will need a
Thanks jessi, you will need a bigger place the way you are expanding your army of plants.
The grow rocks are crucial, they are built of clay and absorbent. What they do is hold on to a small quantity of nutrient solution which benefits the roots, it's round and smooth so this does not damage the roots and it provides plenty of air to the roots - essential for good growth; plus, it's what's known as pH neutral - it won't effect your nutrients.
Here is a little picture of what happens in the baskets - it's not mine though, yet...
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 19:10
#42
Sweet!
Amazon.com has some. I
Sweet!
Amazon.com has some. I just might have to order them
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 11:34
#43
I went and built it... Could
I went and built it... Could not wait.
I have six 3 inch (7.5cm) net pots to hold the hydroton, I have also drilled 3 holes in the top left of the container and put in rubber grommets - through these will go the main power lead to the water pump and two air lines to both air stones; decided 2 would be better than 1.
The container leaks (everything leaks with aero 
), I will use some weather seal around the top of the box to put an end to this.
First picture - underneath showing the net pots. Second picture shows the water pump and micro sprayers, 2 pieces of sponge either end stop the vibration on the horizontal sprayer bar, it also makes things sturdier.
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 16:46
#44
Looking good, can't wait to
Looking good, can't wait to see how it works out. Are you able to remove the power plug or disconnect the cord from the pump to get it through that small grommet or will you just cut it & solder back together once it's through?
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 17:05
#45
Thanks; the plug is a molded
Thanks; the plug is a molded type which I can't remove, I'll just cut it off and put another plug on the end.
Thu, 03/12/2009 - 18:14
#46
Can't wait to see how it
Can't wait to see how it works out, Peat. Are you going to use your large pump for this one?
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 03:14
#47
Thanks Bruce.
Yes, the
Thanks Bruce.
Yes, the original pump will be used - hopefully the water temp won't throw this one out...
There is one more idea, stack two of these containers on top of each other, the bottom one holds the nutrients and pump and the top one the sprayer only. The water pump sucks up the nutrients from the bottom reservoir and sprays them into the top, a drainage pipe in the top one allows the spray to drip back down into the bottom one.
I would then have a very large 'aero' space in the top container for the roots, they would also not be sitting in, potentially, warm water caused by my pump.
Perhaps another design for the future... 
Tue, 03/09/2010 - 03:36
#48
How long have you been in
How long have you been in this field? You seem to know a lot more than I do, I’d love to know your sources!
solar hot water rebates
I'm adding my thanks to Peat, and all the others who have contributed.
You make this site very worthwhile and your time and efforts are appreciated by lofters like me.
Many thanks. (esp. for the photos and your experience/wisdom)